Friday, July 3, 2009

Wrapping things up

Okay, for those of you who are curious how things turned out, debate wise, I'm posting this. For those who aren't, don't worry, this is the last post on the debate!

Earlier posts pertaining to this discussion, from newest to oldest, can be found:
And here

I'll now link to the other response videos that I did not post before, and simply told you to check out Hunter's channel if you were interested. I'm linking to them now, instead of just posting the video's here, since I commented on them directly. I didn't address every point, since I found things were taking too much time, but I responded to the points I felt strongest about.

Response part 2

Response part 3

He then both sent me a message, and made a final response video:

The message he sent me (he reads in in the video, but I'll post it anyway):

I finally got around to reading this whole thing and I've reached a conclusion.

I will NEVER agree with you and I will NEVER sympathize with you. You believe in the structure of a society which I know in my very nature as being integral to the survival of the human race. Which I believe has elevated our level of conscious. Structure of one sort or another is in my opinion integral, I need to know more I need to do more and with society as a catalyst I do not believe that can occur.

Don't bother arguing with that, I was just stating my opinion as you stated yours.

So in our views of life and society I believe we are polar opposites, however I will say I believe we can find common ground under several fronts.

We both respect the nature of the individual and believe that there are many forms of learning and teaching as well as many differing ways of living life.

We both believe the world is one without absolutes the is no RIGHT and there is no WRONG, there is only grey.

We are both humans and we are both sharing in an experience we like to call life, while we may disagree to no end we are still human and as fellow members of a race I respect you.

Thank you so much for sharing your opinion with me and allowing me to, not understand (I don't think I ever will) your side of the argument, but to gain a level of respect toward the dedication and level of belief you harbor for it.

Sincerely, Your Fellow Human Being


The considerably less eloquent message that I sent in response:

Yeah, I hesitated before deciding to comment on your videos at all, but I have a hard time reading/seeing things I disagree with and NOT stating my opinion on the matter! I finally only picked the points that I felt strongest about, and addressed those.

I agree entirely that we will never agree. Just as you *know* in your being that this structure is "right", I *know* in my very being that this structure is the worst thing that could happen to our species and all life on earth, and is fundamentally "wrong" in every way. I don't really see room for agreement there on either side! Although, of course, we have found a bit of common ground on a few points, which I think is a good thing. :-)

I agree that there are many ways of learning.

Certainly. The world thinks too much in black and white... I've certainly been guilty of doing so, as I'm sure you have been as well, on occasion, but I try to remember that there are many shades of grey, and that even if something seems completely ethically wrong to me, by another person's ethics it probably isn't.

I do respect you. We managed to have a civil debate on something that we both feel very passionately about, which I think is quite an accomplishment! And even though, yes, I will never agree with your opinions, I think I understand them, at least to a certain extant. Thank you, as well, for sharing in this discussion!


I hope you found this whole exchange worth following!



  1. Thanks for synopsizing this exchange! I briefly read through some of the typed parts a few days ago and have really been wanting to watch the whole debate in detail but I've been super busy lately. I'll watch them this weekend!

  2. I watched some of the videos, but haven't had the time to see all of them. Although, what I saw was very interesting, so I plan on watching the rest when I have time!!

  3. He says he will never agree and never sympathize. Hmm. How can he know that? That's no longer a debate, but a profession of faith.

    Faith is okay, as a private thing. When faith becomes public, and different faiths collide, the next step is war. Debate is meaningful between two people only when they both accept that they may change their beliefs in the light of new evidence or reasoning.

    So, it would seem that now is a good time for you guys to go your separate ways.

  4. I haven't watched all the footage but I'm really impressed that 2 humans with polar opposing views can nevertheless respond to each other in a relatively respectful way. If this was how all people dealt with conflict, agreeing to disagree, great! Because there will always be conflict in the world. It's the 'how' we deal with it that makes all the difference I think, and how open we are to exploring other's point of views.
    Full credit to both of you :)
    Of course I think Hunter could be more open to understanding unschooling and individual responsibility/self-governance as opposed to being controlled by a power outside of ourselves :P.

  5. I, too, think it is wonderful that the two of you engaged in this debate. Agreeing to disagree is a huge step for anyone, and sometimes friendships then develop, and further understanding can occur. I admire you for putting yourself out there.

    Thanks for sharing!

  6. I have loved and hated lots of things about people who have challenged me and my way of looking at the world but I can say this. It always gave me food for thought and reminded me that my way is not the only way to look at things. This was a great forum and might even help a few people learn some good skills about how to have a conflict without anything nasty being involved. I enjoyed what I read here.